eBay Feedback – More of An Issue for Sellers Than Buyers – Example: Greenteapass

Feedback means so much to sellers on eBay...

In fact, it can mean the difference between being in business one day, and being out of business the next...

Unfortunately for the sellers of eBay, the same feedback situation is not so true for buyers who abuse the system. Yes, there are buyers who abuse the system and they do it knowing full well that eBay Trust & Safety will do little or nothing about it.

Website Blog Special

toolhaus.org

Buyers who accumulate a large amount of feedback on eBay, seem to have the ability to coast under the radar of Trust & Safety.

The account above belongs to one such buyer, yes buyer..."Greenteapass"

The feedback from this account looks more like that of a titanium PowerSeller, rather than a simple everyday buyer. This account has absolutely no feedback earned from sales.

Greenteapass has accumulated 11,436 feedback as a buyer, since joining eBay on September 11, 2006.

This equates to this buyer receiving over 20 feedback per day, everyday for a little less than 2 years. A Superstar buyer in the view of eBay executives? Look more closely at the real feedback numbers of greenteapass and the truth will be revealed. This Superstar buyer has received 147 Negative, 73 Neutral and has had 2 negative feedback removed just in the last year. (Source Toolhaus.org)

Similar feedback numbers would certainly close down all but the highest grossing sellers on eBay.

If a seller were to earn these kinds of feedback numbers, no one would argue that the seller should be pushed out of the eBay system, never to sell again... But what about buyers who do not perform as expected?

The only answer we can find lies in the fact that this buyer still has an active account even though from the previous years history one could conclude that this account should be suspended. Now that sellers can no longer leave honest feedback, there is little chance of that.

What happens if a single eBay account accumulates 147 Negative feedbacks in less than a year? The answer apparently depends upon which side of the transaction your happen to be on. Is this a real system of good business practices? Would a credit card company allow this kind of history from a single account?

Why or how would a buyer accumulate these kinds of eBay feedback numbers?

One theory suggests some buyers buy merchandise from inexperienced sellers and/or sellers on the verge of losing eBay selling status, because of one or two previous negatives, with the intent to ask for partial or full refunds after the merchandise has been delivered. Or using PayPal to charge back purchases on unwitting sellers who do not get signed receipts for shipments.

Greenteapass has disappointed a great deal of sellers with the way he/she or they have done business. The image below had to be compressed considerably just to fit it in this page. It shows the entire negative and neutral feedback history of just this one buyer over the last year.

Remember... With the new feedback system, we will never know about buyers like greenteapass. No feedback trail can track this buyers fraudulent intentions, or any other. We must depend upon Trust & Safety at eBay to keep us safe from these kinds of buyers... Scroll down or follow the toolhaus.org link to see how well that has worked out in the past.

I wonder if greenteapass knows about the new no negative for buyers feedback system at eBay?

First three images below are just screenshots of portions of the bad feedback for this one buyer. The 4th image is a very compressed image of the entire page of bad feedback from Toolhaus.org, just to give an idea of how much poor feedback this one BUYER has accumulated in one year.

For more information about Greenteapass, follow this link to a google search for the eBay name:

Greenteapass on Google

Bad Feedback 2

BadFeedback1

badfeedback1

One BUYERS Feedback on eBay

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19 Responses to eBay Feedback – More of An Issue for Sellers Than Buyers – Example: Greenteapass

  1. Cliff Aliperti June 3, 2008 at 5:17 am #

    Hi Scott,

    The list of negs is too compressed for me to read, I’m curious if you can give a general idea of what they are for, is there any sort of pattern?

    To be honest, while this buyer certainly has left some unhappy sellers, I’d deal with him, no problem. The overall percentage is still decent (I’ve sold to worse, though I don’t think I’ve ever had a buyer with such a high number) and to block him could cost you a lot of potential business.

    The first thing that I wonder though, about the high volume of negatives, is aren’t any sellers filing an Unpaid Item Dispute against the buyer?

    Though perhaps the compressed details would answer that question, maybe the buyer pays for everything and then somehow causes trouble for sellers afterwards — I just did go looking though, and went through 28 pages of positives before reaching the first neg, which was for non-payment.

    Thanks for posting,
    Cliff

  2. Scott Pooler June 3, 2008 at 7:23 am #

    Cliff,

    If you look at the dates of those positives, most have occurred since the “no negatives or neutrals from sellers” rule went into effect.

    Follow the link(s) to Toolhaus.org and read the feedback, I am sorry about the compression of the screenshot image, but unfortunately the original screenshot was over 11,000 pixels in length.

    This buyer does not receive unpaid item disputes simply because the buyer pays with PayPal… waits until the item arrives and then the buyer files a dispute with eBay claiming the item never arrived. This buyer knows how to win these disputes when the sellers do not send shipments requesting signature confirmation upon delivery.

    The buyer has over 1100 feedback since the no negative or neutral rules went into effect at eBay. Do you think he suddenly just stopped filing disputes with PayPal for non-delivery at the same time?

    I understand your reluctance to go looking for bad in each bidder, and I agree. I don’t look at bidders feedback on my items because all I really care about is being paid for what I sell. In this case though, I could be burned just as fast as the last 200 or more sellers in 2007/2008 who actually filed negs or neutrals against this one seller.

    Its a problem – and it should be addressed by eBay and PayPal and Trust & Safety.

  3. Scott Pooler June 3, 2008 at 9:51 am #

    Cliff,

    I added some better screenshots so you can read some of the comments. I cant make room here for all of these comments at that resolution, but I think this will clarify your question on whether you would like to sell to this particular buyer.

  4. Cliff Aliperti June 3, 2008 at 12:01 pm #

    Thanks, Scott, that’s much better!

    It definitely looks like there was a suspension in effect at one time at least, which is at least good to see.

    Good catch, you’re right those 28 pages of positives are all since the new rule went into effect, thanks for pointing out.

    (Which stresses even harder the ways around this rule, after scrolling through 28 pages of positives, my first though was, c’mon this guy is obviously good most of the time. Now, we’ll never know).

    What I don’t get though, maybe I’m just naive, is that still a gigantic amount of positives he’s racked up. He has to have completed a good deal of these transactions on the up and up, no?

    In other words, even if he is gaming the system here on some sales, he hasn’t figured out a way to achieve 97.7% positive feedback though 100% scamming, right?

    Or am I totally missing something and even the majority of the positives are a fraud?

  5. Henrietta June 3, 2008 at 5:24 pm #

    This is apparently a buyers agent or buying ring who has a representative in LA, items are shipped there and then forwarded by container to Korea.

    You are not dealing with one person. If you were in Korea you would pay them to use the service, get a password and bid. When you get around to paying them they pay on your behalf etc.

    The problems arise in that they require their purchase ID number to be written on the outside of the package, not the auction number. This is so they can connect the package to their buyer.

    The deliveries to their warehouse/garage whatever in LA are in quantity and quite often the USPS does not scan DC.

    They have several high FB ID. I believe geopass is one, greeteapass, how this is compatible with eBay rules is incomprehensible.

    Like everything else on eBay these days I guess.

    Block em

  6. Phantom*SF June 3, 2008 at 11:17 pm #

    Henrietta is correct. They are using multiple ID’s. I’ve dealt with the latter mentioned by Henrietta. That one can be googled as well. I had provided a non-paying bidder strike for that ID at one time. Suddenly he decided to pay after all. As far as I was concerned, the deal was over – I then immediately refunded the payment and retained the strike. Shortly thereafter he was NARU – possibly by having received another strike from another seller. About a week later that ID however, he then was active again.

    This only happens by persuasion. They constantly send numerous emails to seller to please remove the strike (in very bad English btw.), with all sorts of excuses. Some sellers then actually do give in and remove the strike – they possibly even pay in order to accomplish this – to either stay in business or to have their NARU relinquished.

    A Google search on both ID’s will reveal more ID’s connected to this scenario – in addition it may possibly even explain why they are being retained by eBay. Whatever the actual reason may be, I find their practices horrendous!

    I’ve contacted eBay about this, and they are aware – but of course are not in the position to reveal any further details.

  7. Phantom*SF June 3, 2008 at 11:18 pm #

    PS> Correction: I’ve dealt with the first one mentioned by Henrietta.

  8. Phantom*SF June 3, 2008 at 11:28 pm #

    Last correction: I guess I’m just too excited after reading about this. The actual ID I intended to refer to is: geoctober

  9. Tracy June 4, 2008 at 7:14 am #

    Look at this one…The wonderful BUY.COM, that they brought on board. How is giving ALL these customers HORRIBLE service, good for ebay? Granted they sell more, but does it look like they may be going a little overboard to where they can’t keep up, with their auctions? Drop it down to maybe 10,000 auctions, at a time and stop padding the numbers.

    http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=buy&Dirn=Received+by&ref=home

  10. Scott Pooler June 4, 2008 at 8:33 am #

    Hi Tracy!

    Thanks for your comments!

    I think Buy’s feedback is a bit of a different story. Of course when you look at the Toolhaus.org results it certainly appears Buy.com has a great deal of negative feedback on eBay…

    But when you compare the numbers of negatives versus positives the feedback rating is actually very high at 99%.

    eCommerce in general strives to maintain a 80% positive feedback rating on service. Only eBay requires customer feedback numbers in the high 90’s. For an eCommerce merchant like buy to come into eBay and maintain a 99% feedback number is impressive.

    I know it may not seem impressive if you are one of the negative feedback responders but on a whole, with all of the shipping snafu’s and other problems which can occur when a business sells on the scale Buy does, it is not too darn bad.

    I buy from Buy.com on a regular basis (the main site, not the eBay store) and I must say they have always had great customer service in every transaction I have completed with them over the years.

    My article above was focused on the buyers who are really not performing and how the new feedback system will in effect give amnesty to these buyers because it seems eBay has let them slide, even when we could see the negatives. Now that we can not see the negatives, do we expect eBay to get tougher on the greenteapass’s of the world?

  11. Cliff Aliperti June 4, 2008 at 12:13 pm #

    Henrietta, thanks, that was quite clear, I think I get it now!

    Breaking it down, they are essentially a Korean reseller of the entire eBay market then?

    So the 10,000+ positive feedbacks are genuine?

  12. J. Gorman June 4, 2008 at 1:47 pm #

    Scott,

    Look at this ebay powerseller who is also an employee of ebay as stated on their listings and about me page. I posted this in the forums and it was immediately censored. 47 Neg’s in a month, 120 past year, 72 neutrals…numerous Mutaully WIthdrawn (No longer an option) and has a 96%. His DSR look suspecious when compared to the number of disatified shipping complaints?

    http://toolhaus.org/cgi-bin/negs?User=frogswamp
    http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=frogswamp&&ftab=FeedbackAsSeller&sspagename=VIP:feedback:2:us&iid=220224714604

    There are bad buyers and bad sellers…whats missing is the level playing field eBay claims

  13. Phantom*SF June 5, 2008 at 3:05 am #

    As a brief update – here’s a few of many links to be found on Google – which lead to eBay Forums:
    http://answercenter.ebay.com/thread.jspa?threadID=900124693&mod=1205979280048

    http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000683360&start=0

    http://answercenter.ebay.com/thread.jspa?threadID=900124693&tstart=24&mod=1207363131273

    One massively large thread of at least ca. 10+ pages long was removed from eBay Forums – and I don’t understand why. However it happened only a few days after I posted a comment myself.

    http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000681912&tstart=0&mod=1208037064368

  14. karl June 6, 2008 at 3:20 pm #

    Geopass and greenteapass are no longer registered users on e-bay…………Thanks for the great info on them and I look forward to the next round of bad buyers…..

  15. john June 12, 2008 at 10:55 am #

    “eCommerce in general strives to maintain a 80% positive feedback rating on service.”

    Of course. buy.com is rated well below 80% on another rating site.

  16. Michael June 16, 2008 at 10:40 am #

    I sold a $250 antique clock to greenteapass on April 2 ’08 and they paid on May 2.

    I immediately realised their feedback was appalling and after Googling them found out they frequently did Paypal chargebacks.

    Also that they were probably a clearing house shipping to Korea etc.

    Anyway I shipped the clock via UPS and heard nothing.

    Until today, June 16.

    An e-mail from greenteapass@gmail.com stating the clock arrived broken and not working.

    I have over 6500 feedbacks on ebay with NO negatives or neutrals.

    My antique clock packing is famous for its safety.

    It seems obvious to me that with the time lag it was shipped overseas, maybe repacked to get there and damaged in transit.

    I just noticed greenteapass is NARU’D but can they still do a Paypal claim?

    greenteapass, geopass and geoctober are all on my blockled bider’s list but who knows what other ID’s they have?

  17. Jp June 24, 2008 at 4:29 pm #

    I am appalled.

    geoctober won one of my items on Sunday, the 22nd.

    No pay, and because they win SO many items in such a variety, I checked the toolhaus negative feedback and saw the ridiculous amount of negatives claiming they’re frauds.

    In my investigation, I’ve found EVERYONE talking about these third party buyers who are conning everyone and EBAY is allowing it!

    I checked Gorman’s post and the guy has taken down his ME page where he says he’s an eBay employee, but he’s still selling and still conning people.

    What’s going on?????????????

    I hadn’t sold on eBay for quite awhile. I REALLY needed the money and that’s why I put these items on — to pay my mortgage.

    Instead I’m in a situation where I’m dealing with some fraudulent entity that has been okayed by eBay where if I ship the item to him, PayPal may take the funds later, andn if I don’t ship to him because what I learn, I’ll get my negative by doing ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong but not selling to a PROVEN scammer.

    I don’t have the money to deal with this. I’m already in a dire situation.

    What do I do? The ebay Answer Center won’t even respond in any helpful way. WHY IS EBAY ALLOWED TO BE COMPLICIT IN CONNING AMERICANS WHO USE THEIR SERVICE?

  18. Jp June 24, 2008 at 4:37 pm #

    Also, the account of the soldier SERVING HIS COUNTRY ABROAD, who got conned by the same seller who bought from me had, his account is now unregistered after having it for 5 years and only one negative.

    http://answercenter.ebay.com/thread.jspa?threadID=900124693&mod=1205979280048

    Do you think his account was closed because of this situation? That’s disgusting. Even in the thread from two frickin months ago, one of the eBay Answer Center regulars says “these are well known fraudsters”.

    What’s going on?!!!!

  19. ThirstyRock July 3, 2008 at 8:32 am #

    Today, I suggested the following to Ebay since the feedback system went completely lop sided. Though does not completely protect the seller, at least you have some safe gaurds.

    I have a few suggestions that will help build confidence and protect sellers. And at the same not interfere with buyers.
    1) Since the change on the feedback system on Ebay, Sellers are open for fraud and abuse. Also there is no way to know if the buyer is a crook since they can only get good feedback and good comments. You have no way of knowing anything about the buyer and no way of blocking a bad buyer. It should be our decision who we sell to.
    So here is a suggestion: We need to have a way to select at our option in our Ebay to block anyone who has left Negative Feedback to a seller in the last 30 days. This can be an option the same as the unpaid items option we currently have. It can be…Block buyer who has left a negative feedback in the last 30 days with 1,2, negative feedbacks left for others etc. And maybe even a within 30 days, 60 days etc. This allows us to at least block some risky buyers at our discretion. And the buyer even though may have had justification for leaving bad feedback on the transaction with someone else, will still be able to buy from other sellers who do not want to block someone who has left negative feedback in a certain period of time. Also it gives the buyer a 2nd thought of leaving negative feedback without resolving the matter. It will not stop them from buying on ebay, it will just keep them from buying from those sellers who choose to set this option and do not wish to take as much risk on someone who could not resolve the matter in which they gave bad feedback.

    2) Another suggestion to help protect sellers and reduce disputes would be an option to require those buyers who have not ID verified with Ebay and got there ID verify icon on their ebay account.
    I would like to suggest that the seller have the option to select an option in their account for those that have NOT ID verified that they are required to pay shipping insurance in their purchases. This encourages them to pay the $5.00 and be recognized with ID Verify. They do not have to ID verify on Ebay and totally is an option for the buyer, but if the buyer has not been ID verified they will have shipping insurance automatically in their total costs. Those who are ID verified will not have shipping insurance automatically added to their shipping costs. Shipping insurance will be optional for ID verified members of Ebay as it is presently for everyone Id Verified or not. This way we can clean up the buyers a little, and at least know a little more who is legit. It encourages the buyer to participate a little more in the Ebay system. And gives the sellers a little more reinsurance on transactions.

    I know there is no way of completely eliminating all fraud etc. But these 2 suggestions at least give the seller more control who buys their products and also helps legitimize more buyers. And since both are options, and not required to be used. It should have no effect on disrupting the present system. And you can stop all the bad press and forums about the feedback system which is driving your sellers away.

    Thirsty Rock Distributors

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